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Where to get Bubble mix ingredients

 
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Gilbert_the_Guppy



Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:49 pm    Post subject: Where to get Bubble mix ingredients Reply with quote

I was in Safeway today looking at bubble mix options and I saw a new product, "Non-Ultra Joy." It made me wonder if this was the Joy that was available before, or just another name. I didn't give it a try, but I thought I would pass that out there for interest.

Also, any ideas on where I can find standard bubble mix this time of year? Perhaps Toys R Us?
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Big Bubble Magic



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Springfield, Oregon USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:58 pm    Post subject: Bubble Mix component sources Reply with quote

The regular Miracle and super miracle:
Some WalMarts have regular the cheapest (and the lubes).
Fred Meyer has both around here.
BiMart can have both.
If you find big bottles (64 to 100 oz), buy many as the stock may not get restocked before summer. You are lucky you are not looking in my town as Ehud and I get most all the good stuff when it is in stock.
Non-Ultra soaps look good and I bought cases before realizing they were not very good. With the new formula they would work OK. I would try to find the kinds I mention specifically. The red Dawn lift action "wildflower medley" is hard to find. I plan to search the portland and Salem areas for all I can find. If you can, get me some if you see more than you want anywhere. KellyO
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Big Bubbler
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Where to get Bubble mix ingredients Reply with quote

I moved some messages here and started this topic as I think it will develop into something useful. I will try to gather some more info on the ingredients I know about - for USA availability. Let us know where you will be searching and what you want to find. If people ask, I can try to get info or recruit others to help with other countries' product availability and comparability. I see they use much PVA in Japan. Anyone want to tell us about PVA types and sources - anywhere?
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Henry G



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PVA is a short form for several different chems. The one I think you are referring to is polyvinylalcohol. Is this correct? If so how does this chem go into a bubble mix? Is it used with Dawn to enhance the life of a bubble? Also, has anyone figured out exactly which synthetic detergents (syn-dets) are used in Dawn or Joy?

Henry Grover Jr.
GTSForums@hotmail.com
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Big Bubbler
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I am talking about polyvinylalcohol or a related compound. There may even be more than one kind of polyvinylalcohol called PVA? They do not seem to have much Dawn in Japan. I think they use other detergents with the PVA. I think you can search (Google) for things like "soap ball PVA" and use the Google translation feature to get some ideas about what is going on in Japanese Big Bubbling.
To find out some info on Dawn, read their Patents (another Google search). I do not know if they will actually answer your question or add to the confusion. If those Googling ideas do not get the info I say is out there, let me know (PM me?) and I will find an address that does lead to that info.
Happy to hear any bubble mix related news you discover, KellyO
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Henry G



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Gilbert,

I have been interested in Joy and Dawn since I have used both in my work. My preference is Dawn. I am a commercial (store front) window cleaner. If you go to the US patent website and type in the patent numbers on the back of a bottle of Dawn, you will pull up a very interesting bit of info. It turns out that P & G have used two hydrotropes; sodium paraffin sulfonate, and sodium xylene sulfonate. The first in Dawn and the second in Joy. This must be the reason for the slight difference in the two products. The hydrotrope in Dawn brings together their nonionic, anionic, and amphoteric surfactants better in water. They also use up to but not more than 1% sodium hydroxide. This is lye. Then, because Dawn is based on low molecular weight polymers, (this gives Dawn its uniqueness) they use a proprietary thickener. In my experiments mixing syn-dets, I discovered ethanol at even five percent is necessary to bring together different surfactant families. They tend to ball up, one in another, if ethanol is not used. And I have seen ethanol (drinking alcohol) listed on the back of some bottles of Joy. This might be the reason why some bubble mixes work better after one or two days of sitting. The alcohol evaporates! Just a guess. My question is;...with all this chemical information available, why hasn't anyone taken the time to dissect Dawn in order to discover the reason why it works so well, and use this knowledge to create the best big bubble formula anyone has ever seen? The tools are there! Or so it would seem. Even if this turns out to be impossible because the chemical mix in a bottle of Dawn is synergistic, at least we would know that for sure, and move on! Either way, it certainly is true that P & G has created something truly unique!

Henry G
GTSForums@hotmail.com
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trmayer9402



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From looking at the old P&G patents, I think 3% Ethanol should do the trick.
PVA is ususlly going to be Polyvinyl Alcohol, but different products may have different molecular weights. I am not a micellar chemist, so I don't know what effect the different MW's might have. Something that I am going to play with is hair gel from walgreens - PVA is high on the list of ingredients, and its dirt cheap.
Another polymer to try is Polyethylene Glycol (Miralax laxitive, OTC), 3350 MW. Its not cheap, but I believe Cassidy mentioned it in The Bubble Thing book.
I am also trying Polyacrylamide as a thickener. Its ridiculously slippery and is difficult to get into solution. Its used in municipal water systems as a flocculant.
I think the reason that no one uses the raw materials in Dawn as bubble mix ingredients (outside the bubble mix companies) is that it is difficult for the general public to purchase synthetic organic chemicals - liability and all that. I have been thinking about forming a small business to do this, but I am betting aside from sample sizes for research, the smallest amounts available are probably 55 gallon drums. Don't think my wife would let me turn the garage into a chemical storage area.
If anyone has any good tips on easily obtainable bubble additives I would love to hear them.

Todd
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Big Bubbler
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:39 am    Post subject: Best mix from scratch (chemicals) Reply with quote

Quote:
with all this chemical information available, why hasn't anyone taken the time to dissect Dawn in order to discover the reason why it works so well, and use this knowledge to create the best big bubble formula anyone has ever seen?


Ya, I wonder this also. It does appear to be complicated to figure out. However, it seems, to me, some people (with the skills needed) would find it a puzzle worth solving. I think it will happen. And, I think there is a better formula beyond that one. We might get the better one first. Exciting bubble times to live in.

Quote:
If anyone has any good tips on easily obtainable bubble additives I would love to hear them.


A recent one that seems interesting is "J-Lube". It is a veterinary gynecological lube that come from a Colorado company as a powder. Cheap and powerfully slippery. Slow to dissolve and can make a big mess if u try to boil it/stir it hot. Power mixing may also decrease effectiveness (break long chain molecules?). Has been discussed on the soapbubblefanciers group at Yahoo. The archives of that group are very full of potentially useful information. BB
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universaldirect333



Joined: 07 Feb 2014
Posts: 1
Location: Oakwood Village,

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

any ideas on where I can find standard bubble mix this time of year? Perhaps Toys R Us?
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Sammy



Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Best mix from scratch (chemicals) Reply with quote

[quote="Big Bubbler"]
Quote:
with all this chemical information available, why hasn't anyone taken the time to dissect Dawn in order to discover the reason why it works so well, and use this knowledge to create the best big bubble formula anyone has ever seen?


Ya, I wonder this also. It does appear to be complicated to figure out. However, it seems, to me, some people (with the skills needed) would find it a puzzle worth solving. I think it will happen. And, I think there is a better formula beyond that one. We might get the better one first. Exciting bubble times to live in.

I would like to help anyone in this quest to find a better (or just as good) product as Dawn for bubbling. I don't want to have to buy Proctor & Gamble products like Dawn because they test on animals. I am willing to go in on whatever it takes to create a magic bubble juice without the help of Proctor & Gamble. I wonder if an organization like Peta would help in this quest. It seems like Proctor & Gamble have cornered the market for bubblers. Also- maybe there are BETTER bubbles to be made (a better bubble juice yet??). Maybe we can pool our resources together to make this happen? -Sammy
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